Welcome to Marketing Monster Mashup, the official podcast of Leading Results!
Join host Matt Starnes for episode nineteen and learn from Phil Singleton as he explains what inspired him to work with small businesses on their SEO growth strategies.Learn what motivated Phil to move to Taiwan in his 20's without knowing the language or anyone in Taiwan. Phil shares how a technology company landed in his lap and led to that aha moment that SEO was the key to dominating Google and search. Phil also speaks with Matt about his new venture, Podcastbookers.com.
Some points we cover in the podcast:
- How Phil overcame insecurities by taking the plunge moving to Taiwan
- How DVD X Copy helped Phil understanding what SEO's potential
- Why writing a book isn't an end goal but rather just the beginning
- Phil's view on guest podcasting and the huge return on investment
- Learn referencing influencers in your book can help boost the promotional signal
Here's the full transcript:
Matt Starnes: 00:00 - I'm thrilled to welcome Phil Singleton to the Marketing Monster Mashup podcast. Phil is a web designer and SEO expert and an award winning author. Since 2005 Phil has owned and operated a digital agency based out of Kansas City in 2016. Phil and John Jantz of duct tape marketing cowrote SEO for Growth: The Ultimate Guide for marketers, web designers, and entrepreneurs. SEO for Growth is an Amazon best seller and has been listed as a top marketing book by Forbes, Mashable, Oracle, and the Huffington Post. It's also been featured on MSNBC, Entrepreneur, and Search Engine Journal, and on many other industry websites. Phil and John are currently entering the next phase of their partnership by offering training and a SEO certification program to marketers and web designers in creating a national network of certified SEO consultants. Marketing Monster Mashup, the official podcast of Leading Results.
Matt: 01:13 - All right. Thanks for joining me. I appreciate it very much. Honored to have you on the show today.
Phil Singleton: 01:20 - Thanks so much for having me. My pleasure.
Matt: 01:22 - My honor. And I guess I kind of want to start heard a little bit but I just want to ask you directly kind of how you started working with SEO and how that led into you working with small business owners to help them with all kind of all kinds of SEO challenges.
Phil: 01:43 - Right. Yeah. I have a very atypical to kind of really winding path to get to digital marketing in fact them it didn't look like it was kind of early on like I would have any chance of ever you know any hope of ever succeeding in this kind of space. And we went to school with you know business hopes in mind and got a degree in finance and I had one class in computer science the only "D" I ever got in college was a computer science class. I didn't I can't say I'm a complete flunky but almost. And then I had a school and I ended up working for an insurance company for three almost four years in Connecticut and just was not happy where I was. It was one of those things where you know it's great to have a paycheck and I kind of stuff but quickly I realized that you know kind of working in a cubicle or a single dimensional type of job was just not for me.
Matt: 02:39 - And I wonder what kind of insurance was that.
Phil: 02:42 - I worked for Aetna and it was actually bond insuring like bond underwriting so we underwrote large construction projects. They get like a financial guarantee So somebody went out got had to build a bridge that actually have to get a financial guarantee insurance company the ones that really you know testing still do provide these type of financial financial guarantees to basically guarantee that the company won't go under for a big project to the government. So yeah the exams are exciting. Jails, schools, bridges, all sort roads all sorts stuff like that.
Matt: 03:15 - I did some time with the health and life business with the Blue Cross from North Carolina back in the back in the day and you know the owner of our agency decided to launch this kiosk inside of a mall. And so I had the pleasure of sitting in a mall and kind of lead mining directly if you will and setting up appointments and that was a there's an interesting couple of years but I too didn't think that was my true path.
Phil: 03:45 - So awesome. Well I did something radical. And I like just packed my bags and moved to Asia.
Phil: 03:51 - So the guys I was working for thought I was nuts, my thought I was nuts but I just wanted to you know do something drastic to change my destiny basically. And I packed up and moved to Taiwan of all places.
Phil: 04:05 - I thought about Japan I thought about China but at the end of the day I settled on Taiwan because I wanted to study Chinese and I wanted to go somewhere that was you know safe and modern type of place in Taiwan is a really awesome place for that so. So for 10 years overall. And my wife who's from Taiwan. And during that little 10 year adventure I'd learn Chinese I came back to the states and got my MBA went back there ended up getting a job with kind of in the dotcom era I worked for a software company called DVD X Copy. Was kind of an adventure itself but after kind of helping companies in North America getting venture capital through Taiwanese investors I did that for a little while working for an agency until the dot com era popped and then I ended up doing some venture some like business development for for companies that want to do business in Asia.
Phil: 04:55 - And what ended up happening towards the tail end of my stint in Asia a consumer software company called DVD X Copy basically fell in my lap and it was a really successful company for a short period of time because what they did is it was kind of like the the next generation of Napster. These guys created this consumer software product that allowed you to copy DVD movies onto your computer and it was legal to sell in the States for like three or four years while they were being sued by Hollywood. So like sold like crazy at best buy. I think it was one of the best buys like best selling software titles they had for a couple of years that it was running on there but they had a great run.
Phil: 05:35 - So we had a reselling it and it was a great thing and I ended up they ended up in Hollywood chased them and chasing them you know basically out of the US.
Phil: 05:43 - And it was still friendly to sell the software under fair use around the rest of the world so I happened to be in Taiwan happened to be working for this company trying to help them expand into Asia. And they lost the suit to Hollywood and I ended up essentially having a company just fall into my lap and it was really interesting that it wasn't you know equipped to do it but I looked the guy in the eyes he going you do this. I looked him in the eye I said I can do this you know I'm looking at him with a cold stare in his eyes. Meanwhile the pee was running down my leg I was like can I really do that. But I did it and it was a great experience and that's really where I learned about about great old good old Google. I mean we were selling this software online and most of our sales at this point in the company's history are the second version of it anyway.
Phil: 06:27 - We're coming from affiliate marketers So this is like going 10, 15 years...12, 15 years ago, where you know we have these affiliate banners up on third party forums and web sites they click on to our website. We sell the software for $19 a sale and then give the big affiliates like 50 percent of that sale. So here I am just not even knowing anything about computers running this company with 25 employees and trying to figure out how it all worked that kind of stuff. But one thing that struck me was like we're writing checks to these affiliates for like $50,000 and $75,000 a month and we're just one of their affiliates. I was like here we're getting half the sale.
Phil: 07:00 - Here we have investors and product in there. Our little piece of it got whittled down to almost nothing and that's when I really woke up and I was like geez you know most of this stuff is coming through Google searches people trying to figure out you know this kind of software which one to buy and that kind of stuff. And I was like wow the light bulb went off and Hollywood ended up changing taking their lobby to the rest of the world and changing the law everywhere. So their fair use DVD backup copy software became basically illegal everywhere. We end up selling what was left of the company and I ended up moving back to the States with my wife and then when that happened from there was I just dumb it was a nice payday to kind of lead that but it wasn't like a you know retire and you know buy an island type of thing so or I ended up like buying this little car because I lived in Taiwan for like 10 years and didn't have a car.
Phil: 07:50 - Motorcycles is just isn't practical to have a car there. I bought one. This guy this auto detailer detail format had struck up a conversation with them and said hey you know instead of selling these these auto detailed jobs for $25 a sale to these dealerships and making nothing why don't you sell try and reach the end consumer and try and sell them for a hundred or 200 dollars. And was like, well how am I going to that was going to build you a website you're going to get direct access to computers computer so I literally went on the ledge because I at this time I still knew nothing.
Phil: 08:17 - I mean I knew a lot about how things were working and I was learning a lot about you know Google and a little bit about web design stuff but I'm wasn't a technician I didn't know how to build a website but I made a promise that what I could keep and I told the guy I'm going to build you a web site and we're going to you know and we're going to make this happen. So I did I did a little front page web site and it took me like two weeks to do it and I figured if I can end up doing it I would just like go out of pocket and pay somebody else to do it. But I love doing it. And it was a one page the ugliest little front page Microsoft Web site you ever seen it was a purple and yellow.
Phil: 08:53 - But low and behold you know 60 days later he started ranking on the first page number one for a lot of terms It was much easier to do this in 2005 but his phone started ringing off the hook and he called me and he said Phil you know you changed my business, you change my life you know and I was like Wow at that moment after 30 years old I became a web designer and I knew what I wanted to do when I grew up type of thing and that little site is really kind of what took me 12 years plus later today.
Matt: 09:19 - Wow! As you mentioned it was such a different frontier back then. But I imagine after you took the plunge earlier in your life to just move to Taiwan building a website wasn't quite as daunting. Right right right. Pack it up and do it.
Phil: 09:36 - And I was not very confident out of school but after you know go into Asia learn to speak Chinese. Yes. So then all of a sudden I had a lot more confidence. You know after 30 and taken some challenges on that I was early on that's for sure.
Matt: 09:36 Do you still speak Chinese?
Phil: 09:53 I do. I remember quite a bit of it. My wife... we used to go back every year. Now that I've got twin boys we go back every two years. They're eight now so. But yes I know enough to get by conversationally but it wasn't like having like actually run a business and that was a totally different. It definitely has deteriorated some since then but I'm still conversationally fluent that's for sure.
Matt: 10:16 Excellent and do you still deal with the Asian market or primarily...
Phil: 10:20 You know not much. Not at all. I'm so just caught up and of course that was my whole thinking going there is like China is going to be like super important someday and I want to speak Chinese. And I haven't really used any of it although I will say you know obviously going to Taiwan and being like a very insecure low confidence person with anxiety issues going into another country and figuring out how to succeed on my own really solved a lot of that. And I think no matter if I've been able to use the language skills as much didn't really matter because that's really what I think helped me become more confident and competent businessperson so. But no unfortunately I haven't yet been able to use it. But who knows. I mean China is not going anywhere and you know they have websites there too so maybe someday I'll be able to actually use it out that way.
Matt: 11:09 You know it's a great story you started working with small businesses on website going on to write or cowrite a book with John Jantz, SEO for Growth. I'm terrible with all the books I don't read in order so I kind of skip around. But you have a lot of great things in there. One thing I want to ask you is so to get to the point where you're co-writing a book. There really is kind of just a fantastic guide for for small business owners and is SEO junkies in general. Is it just your combined experience that got you to this point where were you and John said, I think we've got enough now let's hit this or...
Phil: 12:07 Yeah it's just one of these things like anymore and I guess this comes back to maybe the you know opportunistic watching these venture capital guys come in with a little and take a lot type of thing always trying to figure out how to get multiple wins and things like that that's really been my approach I think to do the to big projects and really any any projects. I mean SEO is kind of the same thing but what the path to the book really was. You know I joined the Duct Tape Marketing Network and the very first event that I went to I sat down next to this other duct tape marking consultant Ray Perry and he dropped down a book on the table. It was basically like here's you know one of the projects that I thought was the coolest thing ever and like you know maybe someday on my career bucket list I'll be able to have a book to put on the table like that.
Phil: 12:54 And low and behold he had heard my SEO pitch at the very first time I'd talk to anybody and he liked the presentation that I gave at that first duct tape meeting. And then right after that call me back when he was back in Atlanta and he said hey I got this second book project. Do you want to be on it. And that's what ended up happening. Ever since that one phone call really has changed quite a bit because I'd really started to dive into content marketing and start to write all sorts of books so that first book that we did local lead generation as a group project there are five duct tape marketing solitons. I saw a lot of things in there that I thought that I learned and a lot of things were great but I also saw a lot of missed opportunities because I think every book project that you do you always learn from the last one.
Phil: 13:35 But the thing that really struck me was one, how easy it was to get endorsements from people that it really kind of helps their cause you go and ask somebody will you endorse this book. A lot of people will say yes because it kind of reinforces their authority which is great. So some but some people think of that as the end all be all. The book is to get endorsements on there is kind of like eye candy for the book. But I looked at it and thought wow we could actually leverage these people and get more people involved and mentioned in the book. I think there will be a lot more power to the book itself. And that was one of the lessons I learned with local regeneration which is the first book that I did that I figured we were doing a second book major book I should say which was SEO for Growth that I did so my whole thought process was I want to write a book for a couple of different reasons one is I really want to have a book that's one that I bring to a lot of class called The Art of SEO and it's a thousand page, highly technical book that I bring as a prop to every meeting to show people. Look how much actually goes into trying to get a website to get the phone to ring, right? But I didn't have anything that I could give somebody that was like here's how you should read this thing as a business owner or here's the things that you can be doing if you want to do it on your own.
Phil: 14:46 Because one of the you know John had his reasons for being about the book. One of mine was I really want to pass a book out say here here's everything that I do. You can do this and try to do it on your own and maybe you can do it or you can hire us and we'll do it for better, faster, and cheaper. But if you get to the end of the book we get into specific tactics there's like two pages of do this, this, this. and this and and it really is that it's like a tell people because you know people say What are you going to be doing. It's like what are going to be doing for marketing? What are you doing for SEO?
Phil: 15:13 Well that's a loaded question that you have somebody sit down for like four hours. So it's like here's a book read this. So that was one purpose for the book was doing it but the real purpose. I think that I was excited about what I wanted to use the book to create a web site property because I saw that every book that you launch out there it almost becomes like this flurry of online digital activity that if you harness it the right way at the right time you can make it pretty powerful web site pretty quickly by you know making sure that all the links and activities that you do point back to that so you can create another really powerful digital asset which I think a lot of people don't think about when they write any books and they think about launching the book and the book sales and having a book website or building a secondary business or a course or maybe even a licensing model off of it is that people don't go that far in terms of a book.
Phil: 16:02 I think a lot of people still think of the book a book project as you publish the book and that's kind of the end goal. To me that's like the starting point. Right. So that was really how I got into. I think I saw this and I said hey you know there's great it would be great to have a book out there to establish authority and have something that might help close or bring more sales. But it's also a great way to build a new business and create a new website, which is what we've done with SEO for Growth dot com and we've been able to generate a lot of it's basically almost becoming its own little Authority Web site with a number of you know links and activities and other types of content and guest blogging that we've had on it is it ranks starting to ranking get some pretty good traffic nationally.
Phil: 16:44 And we've also built a number of child sites off of it that's starting to rank locally, city by city for a number of searches so we essentially took the whole book and made a business out of it right versus just trying to write a book to educate.
Matt: 17:05 You know I think that is incredibly smart. And I guess you know from a layman looking at people who write books, you go, oh, great. They wrote a book. The next goal must just be were to write another book and then you know that's obviously a misconception I think a lot of people have and you know. Like you said you created something that actually lives on beyond that. So it's not just this finite resource for you or for others which is which is wonderful because a lot of times I do read a book and then I just want to continue a conversation or be connected. And social media is not always the best way. Or try to continue the conversation when they're they're stressed out. You know when they're writing the next book to complete the deal or whatever it is.
Phil: 17:52 Totally. I mean one of the things about the book too is it. I mean it's great. There's good information in there and everything that we do is in there. But what I'm most proud of if you read through it and kind of look at it like at another angle is the way that we tie the website into it right. So we went and then we purposely put Ok here's a glossary. Go back to the Web site and read the classic glossary so you can go back there. We've got like a review fun on there go take care of you finally stop here and go take the website report. And the other thing that we did and it really worked out is the end of each chapter we named a a very specific you know authority authority and that relates to that chapter.
Phil: 18:27 So the cool thing about that in writing the book is you know we went out to like Rand Fishkin and I said hey Rand. We just wrote it at the end of the chapter we made you. We named you the expert on this. Would you mind taking a look at the bio that we wrote for you. And he did. He went and he took. We sent him the two pages or one or two pages that we wrote on and we sent it. He edited it and then sent it back to us so he actually like contributed to the book right. And each one of the 16 people did this. They actually responded in their own way contributed to it and some of them because they were named as an authority and we reinforce their authority. They actually were incentivized to help promote it.
Phil: 19:05 So somebody like Larry Kim the guy that runs Rand I think he moved on to another start up...maybe Wordstream. I mean he promoted us in their email on their social media. He gave us an e-book Usted of Yost gave us an e-book and promote it as a social channel just because you know we named these guys and experts up. So we did that and we also we also referenced 200 other people in the book in terms of like referencing what you'll see at the bottom of footnotes. Each one of those people we went out and told them they're in the book right. So they had a lot of them had incentive to then help us promote that in their social media when the book launch. So no we purposely went in there and baked in a lot of people and made other people part of the book and larger in small ways.
Phil: 19:48 And to me essentially what we did is we baked in, we basically optimized the book. You know what I mean we found different ways to get people involved for the purpose of leveraging them online and making them a part of it. And they gave us access and then a lot of them not all of them but a lot of them did end up helping because they were flattered to be mentioned and referred to in the book.
Matt: 20:16 Yes, and it definitely benefits them as well. It gives them kind of a way to get people to visit them and really respect them on a different level sometimes. So I did want to ask you about the service you started podcastbookers and talk about that a little bit. I think it's really fascinating that the guest the guest is a guest podcasting and of the power behind that. But I just think it's really kind of something that's been ignored in the space. I was excited to read it.
Phil: 20:58 I am this is just something that you know things like like mentioned I'm a Duct Tape Marketing consultant and I go to these annual summits last summer I went to last year we just had the very last moments just a couple weeks ago and in Denver but the one before that was in Scottsdale and I remember John Jantz saying that you know he really attributed a lot of the success of the Duct Tape brand and the book to his early involvement in podcasts and I was like for some reason that really struck me and I always kind of had podcasting in my mind but I think I like a lot of people even like I was you know before he was he mentioned that it really hit me I was like it kind of seems like a fringy tactic. It's I know people do it and it feels like it's becoming. But I just thought it necessarily it wasn't for me or a part of the way I would market or part of what my clients would market. But then at the end I said you know he said that I was I really got to take a look into that cause a pretty powerful statement. So I did and I started looking at these podcasts. I just noticed that for whatever reason they tend to have a little bit better traffic and they're better domain authority than sites of a similar size without a podcast. That's really interesting. Then I went looked around and thought about well you know starting your own podcast seems like a whole lot of work. I'm actually doing mine right now and it's as you are doing and it's it's work but it's like anything it's like running a book is or is not as much as you originally thought it was going to be once you get it all in.
Phil: 22:21 But it seems like it's like one of the things that's too big of a project let's start it later. So I figured a nice way into this would be like Oh look let's look a bit like maybe you know get on a podcast is there a way that you could you could maybe leverage the book writing or something else. And I looked around and I did see a number of sites and services out there that do help people trying get guested or booked on podcast shows. So I went through a couple of them but I just really wasn't happy with the people I was dealing with the service wasn't that great they were kind of one dimensional. I did ended up hooking up with one person a freelancer who had some experience doing this and then I still wasn't 100 percent sold on it.
Phil: 23:04 When I first started doing them I was like this seems pretty cool. Let me try it out and then they ended up getting me booked on like four or five shows right away. And then the first one that I did it really dawned on me what was happening and why I think this is like the most powerful content marketing tactic ever and that is OK. First of all it was super easy. I didn't have to produce a show or anything. I literally was aghast. I talk for like 20-30 minutes and put the headphones on took the headphones off and I was done. Then I realized like what goes into it right the people a lot of times create custom graphics on your behalf. They go out and they'll do show notes with very valuable back links back to your website or social media channels or whatever you're promoting. They'll actually do some write up on you in terms of show knows it so. So instead of you know just trying to go out and pitch somebody and maybe on a guest blog post which is what a lot of folks do right they go try to write a nice authoritative or educational guest blog post and try and get them posted on third party websites. Just really and a lot of cases to them to get access to a backlink that they hope will help out in this case with guesting and you're going on somebody else's show and you're not having to do any of that work. No outreach no writing. They're going. They write for you. They do all the work right?
Phil: 24:17 And then you get all this benefit for the short period of time and then what ends up happening is like not only did they give you links back to you but the show is about you. Well I mean on their network and they somehow it doesn't matter if they've got 50 listeners or 5000 or 50000, they're introducing they're trusted by their listeners and they just introduce you as an expert to people that trust them. This is a very important thing that's happened it's almost like it's almost a virtual public speaking. So it started to dawn on me that you know not to mention you get you know shared in the social channels lots of people put you in their email. And then another thing that I was doing I've done and now you know we've done several times after each show and nothing has really done this are doing it. We have a system or will go out say hey if the client if the host thanks you and says you've done a good job or is appreciative then it's a great opportunity to go actually asked for a review. Where they can review you on Google or another platform like LinkedIn and you can reciprocate by doing it for them somewhere or maybe a lot of them money have their own iTunes reviews or whatever it is. So once you start thinking about all these like all these win-wins you can get out of it as long as you have the discipline to ask that kind of work and do the show all of a sudden it's like geez for that 20 or 30 minute investment I just got you know hundreds in some cases thousands of dollars worth of value or just by doing a podcast guesting campaign.
Phil: 25:43 So once that happened I was like this has basically changed my whole business. That is the easiest thing I've ever done. It's got the most value in terms of bang for buck of the time involved. But it also fits into the entire roll of we're all trying to become authorities in our niche and being a show and getting out there and doing this kind of town hall approach and being on lots of different shows that are related. It's another thing that helps reinforce your authority right because people are out there asking these questions and they're there saying you know here's Phil came on our show today. He's an expert in this and that right or somebody else is it's by nature of having somebody say those words reinforces your authorities so all these great things happened I was like wow this is not only am I totally hooked on podcast guesting I said I've got to offer this to my clients.
Phil: 26:29 I've got to offer my own service of my own business because of the services that are out there. None of them are taking an SEO approach they're taking like like I think a lot of people take a web design approach as a digital brochure or a book is just about the book is not about anything else. Same thing a podcast guesting it's yeah it's about getting access to the thing. But there's so many other things that you get out of it. If you pay attention and line it up right that it could be you know it's great. I think in my opinion for what I'm doing with my clients it's kind of becoming part of the whole engagement delivery. You know we'll start off with the basics kind of marketing on the Web site. Help them you know develop an ebook or a book and make them into a published author and then use that offer to kind of launch them into a guesting campaign which then feeds into their SEO their content marketing and their authority. And that's really kind of how I've almost changed my business this year. But I'm not I don't think I'll ever get off the podcast tour because one it's hotter than it's ever been. And two there's like thousands and thousands of shows. Not everybody you know wants to have good guests and that kind of stuff. So there's just an endless supply of listeners and shows out there where you continue to spend and spread your message out. And the only thing that's really going on is the one thing that I've really kicked myself in the butt for is I've been on over 40 shows and I've gotten clients off of it.
Phil: 27:50 I've gotten over 30 reviews. One thing that I missed was if I would have had my own show in the beginning I probably would have lots of my own listeners right now. Right. But it dawned on me at the end here is like wow the natural progression is once you get into it as you should have your own show right. So if I would have thought about that ahead of time and made that investment you know I think I would have probably been better off and even had more because I would have a show I'd have my own show with hundreds you know even thousands of listeners right now just by nature of talking on other people's shows. And I missed that opportunity. But as soon as I figured that out I was like you know this is kind of what we're doing right now is launching our own show but that's it. What's it kind of it in a nutshell. But there's a huge I think huge opportunity podcasting was hot in 2005 and it kind of died down with social media. And then the last two or three years man it just seems like it's raging. So.
Matt: 28:43 And I think you've probably seen this as well. It's almost like country country music listeners there they're so loyal you know with the podcast listenership or the people that are in your podcast are so loyal and they will stick around and listen to the whole podcast and I'll be out and talk to somebody you know and I'll send them a link to the podcast as ahead of time. Sometimes you know I'll do a lot of face-to-face interviews with podcasts as well. I'll show up at their small business and they'll be like we really enjoyed this one. And I'll be like that was one I recorded last year and they listened to it.
Phil: 29:21 It's so awesome.
Phil: 29:23 I mean you bring up a great point because here's two things that I think that are you know I don't want to. I think video is really important. People should do video but with a with a podcast. You know with the video you're commanding all your senses so a two minute three minute video is really long.
Phil: 29:39 But with the podcast you can be listening and doing other things right actually working you can be driving you can be walking out of your office so the time that people spend listening is a lot longer than they would on a video because you can't command everybody senses like that. The second thing I think that's missing is goes into the endless SEO benefits that podcast booking has or podcasts in general is when you inbed an audio file on your website and make that the hub of the launch when you launch the show and people play it off of your website. You're increasing the dwell time on your web page or your website in gernal but mostly the page right? So a lot of people a lot of SEO experts out there will tell you that dwell time the length of time that somebody spends on you're on a web page is correlated highly with rankings for a given page.
Phil: 30:31 So that's another thing that really got me excited about this was as I have my own show and I've got this rich media I can put on a page and I know that people listen to audio longer than they do video. I've got a great way to build up an audience and then also incentivize them to listen on on the page right of course. People going to listen on the right that the hardcore people are going right to their you know iTunes or whatever and download it right on their app but a lot of other people are going to play it and take a listen. You know right on the on the webpage through the through the browser player and that by in and of itself I think is a very strong on page SEO benefit.
Matt: 31:06 Yeah it's a fantastic point. You know when I look in Google Analytics that you know definitely definitely I look at that I look at the average time spent on site or page or whatever and yeah that is something I think a lot of people pay attention to.
Matt: 31:24 I would love to love to have you back and really just focus on podcasting for a follow up episode in the future. But for now where can folks find information about podcastsbookers and also about SEO and the work you do?
Phil: 31:43 So yes there are a couple of places. The one I like to send people to kcwebdesigner.com that's kind of the that was ground zero for you know my business and where that first little ugly little website that could started type of thing but it's also going to be run and have my own podcast here kind of in the next the next week or so which you're going to be a guest on.
Phil: 32:11 OK so kcwebdesinger.com there is the first one and then SEOforgrowth.com is the book web site you can check that out and some great there are some great bundles on there if somebody does end up buying that book. I think you can get it for free if you're like an Amazon Prime member. You can come back to that Web site and there's a really cool three ebook bundle that has an e-book from Wordstream. Got a ebook on local SEO there. And then we've got one from Yost's the guys from Yost Plug-In actually have an on page website optimization ebook that's very in-depth. You can get this little simple download all you got to do is I think in some cases you go get the Amazon book for free come back put the code in and get the ebook bundle for free so that that's just head to SEO for Growth on that one.
Phil: 32:52 And I like to hang out on LinkedIn. So anybody wants to talk or connect that's kind of my first social place media place to hang out. And then finally you know if you get into the podcast booking and we got a really solid I think we get the best priced service on the market for people that are interesting podcasts guesting and that's podcastbookers.com. That's something I'm really proud of and I hope to help a lot of marketers and business owners and entrepreneurs you know increase their authority and get more leads through podcast interview marketing.
Matt: 33:25 Thanks for taking so much for being a guest and like you said I would love to have you back and just have an episode on podcasting.
Phil: 33:25 Yeah!
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